What Happens When the Paycheck Stops

What Happens When The Paycheck Stops? – Keys To A Successful Retirement With Fritz Gilbert (Part 1) | Ep 206

In Today's Episode

Fritz Gilbert From Retirement Manifesto

What You'll Get Out Of Today's Show

  • How to have a successful retirement.
  • Why planning for retirement is about more than just money.
  • How to make the transition to retirement.
  • The 10 commandments of retirement.
  • Why curiosity is the key to being happy in retirement.

Resources Mentioned In Today's Conversation

If You Want To Support ChooseFI:

Transcript Here

 

Speaker 1:
You're listening to Choose FI Radio. The blueprint for financial independence lives here. If you're looking to unlock the secrets to financial independence and early retirement, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and join a community of like minded people who are getting off the hamster wheel and taking control of their lives in the pursuit of financial independence. Choose FI, your home for financial independence online.

Jonathan:
Hello everyone and welcome. We're kicking off a two part retirement series titled, What To Do When The Paycheck Stops: Keys to a Successful Retirement and we're partnering with our good friend Fritz Gilbert to bring you this episode. Fritz is kicking off his brand new book by the same name, Keys to a Successful Retirement which is going live on May 5th. He's been blogging and writing for the last five years at theretirementmanifesto.com. And in this series we're going to cover the mindset and psychology, the conversations, the opportunities, and the challenges that come with that first year of retirement. And then in part two of the series we're going to be looking at the technicals, how to replicate your paycheck. We're going to look at the strategy that Fritz himself is using and one that has been replicated by many, many of his readers. I think this series is going to provide incredible value for you and we're going to break this topic wide open right after this.

Jonathan:
All right, lots to cover and to help me with this, I have my co-host Brad here with me today. Brad, I know you took extensive notes on the book, Keys to a Successful Retirement, what are you most looking forward to unpacking?

Brad:
Yeah, it's a great question Jonathan. I really enjoyed Fritz's book and he talked about, while money is the number one ingredient in building a successful cake as he calls it, really there's so much more than that. There is positive attitude, curiosity, generosity, food for your mind, social connections, all these things, but yet there are challenges as well and Fritz lays them out including depression, boredom, loss of identity, and grief. And I thought this was a really honest and wonderful look at what it's truly like to be retired.

Jonathan:
So Fritz, the title of this episode, When The Paycheck Stops, I mean, to be honest, that sounds like a numbers based question or numbers based setup. But I think what comes through in your book is, this is a mindset game. I mean, getting ready for retirement and embracing and having a successful retirement, there's a lot of stuff involved outside of just the actual numbers here.

Fritz:
Yeah, absolutely. And first of all, thanks for having me on the show again. I love what you guys are doing and always glad to chat with you. So looking forward to the series. Yeah. So, as I started this book, it was really about, five years ago I started the blog and I was three years away from retirement. So I went through this three years of preparation. Now I'm two years into retirement, right? So I'm looking over a five year time span and I'm looking back, what have I learned? I've been writing every single week for that entire time. What have I learned? What are the key takeaways? And what can I summarize down into a book that helps people with the keys to a successful retirement?

Fritz:
So, it's interesting, when you think about, what do you do when the paycheck stops? I think when most people think about retirement, you instantly go to the financial side first and you should, you've got to have the foundation, the numbers have to be there, 25X, 30X, whatever your safe withdrawal rate, all that kind of stuff. You've got to have that foundation in place. And that's the first place people go. But when you actually get into retirement, you find if you've done that part right and you've built the right solid financial foundation, it's the other stuff that really drives a successful retirement.

Fritz:
So, as I wrote the book, the first chapters I'm building up these keys, is focused on the tactical side of setting up the paycheck and what do you do? And that's important because when you think about it, when I made the decision to retire, I wanted to be in a situation where I never had to depend on income again. Now we all know realistically most people make money in retirement, that's fine. I didn't want to plan on that. If it happens, it happens, but I wanted to have a solid enough foundation, I worked one more year just to be a little bit extra cautious. And I think getting the foundation of how you're going to move from that accumulation phase to the withdrawal phase is the fundamental tactic that you've got to have built before you start thinking about the other emotional stuff of retirement.

Jonathan:
And Fritz, one of the things that actually came through for me as I was reading the book is how prepared and simultaneously unprepared you were for retirement and that, in your case, this is your first time doing it but on the counterpoint, you spent the last five years, through your blog, The Retirement Manifesto, thinking through that and thinking through all of the variables that you would want to account for. And I'm curious, how did that first year match up to your expectations?

Fritz:
Ooh, good question. I would almost say I was borderline obsessive with curiosity about, what's it going to be like to be retired? I don't know if I'm unique that way or if a lot of people have that thing, but it's one of those fascinating times in life, it's kind of like when you get married. When you're a single person, you're thinking about getting married, you don't really know what it's going to be like until you're married. Right? It's kind of similar to retirement. You can talk to people that are retired, you can read about being retired, you can think about it, but until you actually get into it, there's no way to really explain it. So, I dedicated a fair amount of this book to trying to explain to people that aren't retired, what it's like to. And that's the locked door part of the book, if you've read that, we'll keep that a secret because that's one of my favorite parts.

Fritz:
But anyway, all that said, so how did it compare to what I thought it was going to be? And I had very high expectations, obviously. I thought about this a lot and I can honestly say two years in, it's even better than my very high expectations. I absolutely love being retired. It's a great, great stage in life. I got out at 55, still have good health, I focus on fitness and just the freedom to do what you want to do when you want to do it, it's such an awesome way to live life. I can't even explain it. It's that good.

Fritz:
I'm sure you guys are feeling the same thing. Obviously you're hustling, you're doing Choose FI, you're busy. Well, so am I. I'm writing the book, I'm doing charity stuff, we're all busy, but that's part of what makes a retirement great, right? The thing is you're busy on the stuff that you choose to be busy on. For the first time in your life, the financial element is no longer the priority of deciding what you're going to invest your time in and that opens up so many doors of what you want to do with your life. It's hard to comprehend that freedom until you actually live it. It's great. I love it. Can you tell?

Brad:
I can see the smile from here and that's for sure. And I'm curious, what did retirement feel like at the very beginning? Because I was struck by, obviously you prepared for this, but I think on some level you can't possibly prepare for, "Man, this has been my entire life for the last 30 plus years. Now, what am I? Who am I? What am I going to do?" And also combined with the fact that you say that your book is for people who are one year after retirement, so it seems like those first three, six, 12 months are this interesting transition period, right?

Fritz:
Yeah, yeah. And I had read some things about the phases of retirement, but it's really hard to explain. But it definitely, and I mentioned it in my book, be prepared for transition because it's not a one and done, right? The first couple months, it really is the honeymoon period. And I had a smile on my face. I remember, I left the airport. At my last day of work, I flew in from Chicago to Atlanta, I got in my truck and I started driving up to the mountains because we live up in the mountains of North Georgia where the Appalachian trail starts actually. And I'm driving up here and I'm going, "Man, that's my last business trip." And I mean that smile was on my face for a solid month. And it's such a great feeling to know you'll never have to go to work. You'll never have to set an alarm clock.

Fritz:
And what I found is, it's great, savor that because that's probably to me the best part of retirement. You've been working all these years, you're finally here, man, that's great. But it doesn't stay that way. I think the human mind or something is conditioned to produce. You've got to be productive, at least for me, I'm not speaking for everybody, but I think it's a pretty common thing. You've got to find what the next thing is going to be. And that's really what the book is about, is going through this process of discovering what your life is going to be in retirement. That said, I think the most important thing I did and the reason my transition was so successful, all the research I've read. And I actually listed this twice in the book, it's the only key to successful retirement that was listed twice and that is to spend as much time mentally preparing for retirement while you're still working.

Fritz:
That's been statistically proven as being the number one criteria, the differentiator between people that have a good transition and those that struggle. So I think the fact that I spent so much time mentally preparing and thinking about what it was going to be, even though I didn't really know, just the fact that you're thinking about it and you're developing ideas of what you want to do with your time. I have no doubt looking back that that investment of my time was the biggest single criteria for why my retirement's been so successful.

Brad:
Yeah, that's amazing Fritz. I'm curious, did you think about down to the micro of what a day was going to look like or a week or month? Or did you think just in terms of like you said, produce and being productive and finding meaning? Talk the audience through because there are people out there who are going to be retiring soon who need to start thinking about this, how did you do it?

Fritz:
Yeah. How do you explain your thinking process, I guess, right? And I love the way you guys are really focused on the granular, what are the tactical steps? And I think this one's a little bit more nebulous. I think the best thing we did, about eight months before I retired, it was over a Thanksgiving holiday. I took an extra week off and I said, "Look, it's going to be slow at work, the holidays, blah, blah, blah." My wife and I talked about it and we said, "Let's just pretend we're retired for this 10 days and let's just try not to check emails, they should be slow anyway. And let's just think about what's our life going to be like in retirement." And we kind of lived those 10 days thinking about, "Man, just imagine if we were retired right now." Right?

Fritz:
So trying to get yourself in a situation that's as close to approximating retirement as you can, kind of put you in that frame of mind. I didn't get down to the level of, what am I going to do every day? What I focused on, if you remember my article, The 10 Commandments of Retirement, I can send you guys a link, we can put it in the show notes, but it was more around that type of thing. What were the macro drivers? The first commandment, I'll do this from memory, but the first commandment was, have an attitude of gratitude. So it was more focusing on the mindset and the framework that I wanted to have. Be generous. We're at the stage in life now where we can give back, so invest your time in charity, focus on others. It was more those macro mental state of mind elements that I was thinking about when I was preparing for retirement.

Jonathan:
So the title of the episode, What To Do When The Paycheck Stops, part of that is it's not just the paycheck. Especially for an individual that spent a massive amount of time with one company going up through the ranks in one company, which I believe is the large part of your story. There's a lot that comes from that, that sense of purpose, that sense of identity, that sense of community, that connection, that level of learning, which for the last 10, 20 years has really been in the focus of the company's priorities, the company's goals, how to help the company do that. Suddenly that stops and that's a pretty big hole. If you're waiting until retirement to start thinking about that, that's a pretty big hole to fill. What are your thoughts on that?

Fritz:
Boy, spot on, Jonathan. It's almost like you read the book. I mean that is one of the biggest keys. If you look at the people that go back to work, it's 25% roughly of people go back to some kind of part-time work or something. And the vast majority of those people don't do it for financial reasons. They do it for all those other things that work provides that you don't necessarily realize were provides until you're no longer working, right? Now, you're like, "Well, what's my purpose? Hey, where are all my friends?" All those things you just talked about, and if you really want to think about... And that's, I think when we talk, you got to have the financial foundation, that's fine. But the really important stuff is exactly what you just asked in that question.

Fritz:
How do you go about finding those things that bring fulfillment that you used to get from your job? And I think you're spot on, your sense of identity. Let's start with that one. Think about how many times when you're working people be, "Oh, what do you do?" It's a standard question. "Oh, I'm an accountant. Oh, I'm a pharmacist." [inaudible 00:00:13:30]. "I'm a CPA." Right, Brad? "What do you do?" That has defined you for so many years and it's no longer there. And the people that tend to struggle the most with retirement are those type A, hard charging, right up to the last minute. They get whacked unexpectedly. They didn't see it coming and they've never had time to think about, what do they want to be known as after they retire? Because it's just, they're just obsessed on what they do with their job.

Fritz:
So finding something that you can identify as in retirement is a really important thing to think about. And I know a lot of times you won't know until you get into retirement. That's where the curiosity comes in. I think being willing to explore, look at my blog as an example, probably the same with Choose FI. Somewhere, you just kind of had this seed of an idea. And mine came, I can remember, April of five years ago, so whatever year that was. "I want to start a blog." So I sat down, Bluehost, typed up a URL, I started a blog, purely out of curiosity. Five years later, looking back at that decision, that was one of the most important things I did because part of my identity now in retirement is, "Hey, I'm that guy at The Retirement Manifesto."

Fritz:
I've found I love writing. It provides that sense of accomplishment and purpose and productivity. It just happened by chance. It happened because I was curious and I just stumbled across it. So there's an interesting mix of being open to explore things. If you've got a slight interest in something, pursue it, take the first step, see where it leads. If it doesn't work out, fine. You'll throw 10 things against the wall, nine of them will slide to the floor, but the one that sticks might be the one that helps you identify who you are in retirement and it's a serendipitous process. You just kind of have to explore and try new things and don't get stuck doing something that you don't enjoy. Recognize that you can try as many things as you want to try because as we said earlier, money's not the driving factor now. It's finding all these other factors that you just mentioned. And that's really at the heart of really crushing retirement is figuring that stuff out.

Jonathan:
Crushing retirement.

Brad:
No, that's great. And I love that you really talked about the curiosity, right? And I think that is such a hallmark of a successful life, is really just thinking and trying and not being afraid to fail. I know people just in my own life who are retired and it seems like they're just doing the same thing over and over again. And I'm not sure that it's all that fulfilling. And sometimes I wonder like, "Why isn't that curiosity there to try something new?"

Fritz:
Yeah. And I don't know if that's a personality trait. I don't know if it's something you can develop. One of my favorite hashtags is never stopped learning. I mean always challenge yourself to learn and as you learn, and that goes back to that same core principle of being willing to be curious. And I don't know, Brad, if that's something you can develop or if that's something that's innate, but if you don't naturally have that, really try to foster it. Challenge yourself. If there's something you're thinking about as you're hearing these words that you're kind of curious about, man, if you take nothing away from this podcast episode, take that. Go try something. And it really does... That to me is the elemental seed that's going to sprout these wonderful things that you don't see coming.

Brad:
Yeah, no, I love that. And you don't need these grandiose plans. You can just get started. I think on some level there might be almost like a paradox of choice scenario where you're overwhelmed by all the options you have, so therefore you shut down and don't do anything. But I mean just from hearing your words, it's like you're giving people permission, just try. What's the worst that happens? You wasted some time, but you might've just wasted that time anyway doing nothing.

Fritz:
Exactly. It's better than sitting watching Netflix all day. And a tactical way that somebody might want to think about doing it. I was trying to do these bucket lists, it was kind of 50/50. I don't know how successful it was, but I think the mental exercise is worth it. And when people think of a bucket list, they always just think of, "Oh, where do I want to travel to?" No, forget that. I mean, yeah, you're going to have travel ideas on there and that's fine. But that's like checkers. If you move to chess and you really think about developing a bucket list around these types of things that we're talking about, look at... Life is like a wheel. And you got all these spokes in your wheel, you've got your spiritual, your financial, your charitable, your relationships. Try to develop bucket list items for every one of those spokes and expand it beyond the travel.

Fritz:
And if there's, hey, look at trying to develop the artistic side of your brain. I think that my wife and I both talked about this, she's taken up painting recently. She's never painted. She loves it. She's really good at it and I think finding those things on the artistic side and throw them on your bucket list, when you get into retirement, you're into it, you're kind of getting into this new steady state, "Hey, this is my life." Pull that thing back out and try a couple because there was a reason you put them down there. It was a seed in your mind. So, spend an hour or two, pull up a spreadsheet and just brainstorm, put different columns down for all these different aspects of those spokes in your wheel. And brainstorm as many things as you can under there. And if nothing else, that's kind of a tactical way that can maybe help you brainstorm some ideas.

Jonathan:
Hey everyone. Next we're going to steer this conversation towards creativity and finding a creative outlet in retirement. What role does that play in a successful retirement? Is that a necessary piece for this next stage of life? We're going to get Fritz to weigh in, but before we do, we'll be right back.

Jonathan:
You mentioned creativity there in the context of your wife picking up painting for the first time. Do you feel like this last year has been a creative outlet for you where you're giving yourself more permission to try and fail than you ever have before?

Fritz:
Absolutely, absolutely. I think, if you think about from the time we're in kindergarten and the teacher tells you to do this and do that, your creativity is stifled all through life. You're forced into this box so that you can work in corporate America and you can follow the rules and you can do what the boss, whatever. We've all heard that story. But if you think about it, that's decades of creativity stifling activity that you've been brainwashed by. So I think, yeah, absolutely. That's one of the joys of retirement is you can kind of pull that lid off, rip the bandaid off, and open up that creativity, open up that side of your life and you'll find some really good stuff there. And absolutely, writing my book, where'd that come from? I mean, that's creativity.

Fritz:
I'll tell you kind of a weird example of it. My wife's charity, we build dog houses for low income families and fences. So if they have a dog on a chain and they're low income, my wife saw this. This is another one of these things where, just try it. So she started this charity called Freedom for Fido and we build fences for free for low income families. It's a legal nonprofit. And somebody asked me, "Hey, do you guys have a template to build dog houses, a plan or something that I can use and maybe donate a doghouse to you guys?" Well, we didn't, but rather than just, "Sorry, we don't," I reached out to a guy. He's a volunteer who builds our dog houses. He's amazing. This guy is like a master builder and I went up to his shop every week for, it took several months by the time we were done and I videoed the whole thing. I learned video editing totally on my own. I bought some video editing software. I got a YouTube channel now. All that stuff is coming out of this creativity.

Fritz:
And then the final piece of that, as I'm building this with him, I'm like, "We really have to have blueprints. Somebody has got to know how long these two by fours need to be. I've never drawn blueprints." So I'm taking pictures of this stuff in the shop. I'm taking down all the measurements in my notebook. When I got home, I opened up Google sheets and I was like, "Oh, let me see if I can figure out how to make a blueprint." And just working in Google sheets and drawing lines on the squares and everything. Son of a gun, I came out with 19 pages of blueprints for this doghouse project. That's all creative stuff and it's so fulfilling when you just try something and you figure it out and the end product is good. There's that sense of accomplishment that we're talking about that you lose from work. Boom. I just got a sense of accomplishment. I made blueprints, I made a YouTube video, you guys are doing a podcast. That sense of accomplishment tends to come, at least in my experience, from a lot of these creative areas.

Jonathan:
Yeah, and what you mentioned there, you went to the creative outlet, but that actually encompasses a lot more than just the creative aspect. I mean you were weaving that, I believe your wife's nonprofit that she started as you documented in the book, that nonprofit was also an answer, not just for the low income families who had dogs that were on chains and this is providing a really safe spot, but also it was a form of healing for her as well and maybe a lack of identity that she was feeling, a lack of purpose. Expand on that and talk a little bit more about that intersection of purpose and identity and how she found this and what y'all are doing about it in your local community.

Fritz:
Yeah, yeah. Great question. And I think this goes back to you can get to retirement a lot of different ways. My wife, when we had our daughter who's 25 now, we both agreed she was going to be a stay at home mom. So while she was working, for the younger listeners out there, if you're married and one of you want to be a stay at home spouse, we banked her entire paycheck. We never spent a dime of it. We knew from the day we were married that we both wanted to have her be a stay at home mom. So, as soon as we had our daughter, she was able to quit the workplace. That was great. Well for 18 years, obviously while our daughter was home, she was a stay at home mom. She's busy doing all that.

Fritz:
And then when our daughter was a senior in high school, my mother in law, so my wife's mom ended up moving in with us. She had Alzheimer's and she lived with us for three or four years and then she had to go into a nursing for the last couple of years of her life. And through that entire period my wife was caregiving, either for our daughter or for her mom. And we didn't really think about that and in hindsight now we have obviously, we never recognized that's what her job was. She was providing care, not unlike a nurse, not unlike whatever. That was kind of her job. And when her mom passed away, she kind of retired. It's a very similar process. The difference was because she hadn't really been thinking about it as a job and you don't really think about, what is my life going to be like after my parents pass away? You just kind of live your life and do what you do.

Fritz:
So it was almost like one of those corporate type A, right up to the end, you lose your job, and suddenly you're without a job. It was a very similar transition. It was really interesting to watch. Ironically, it happened three months after I retired when I had gone through this multiple years of writing every week and all this thinking and we're talking back and forth through the whole time thing and we're really thinking about what our retirement is going to be. Well then all of a sudden her life took this big change that we hadn't really thought as much about. And I think it goes to show that that sense of purpose, whatever it is in your life, whether it's work or something else, when that suddenly gets lost, you've got to find something to replace it with.

Fritz:
And in her case, it was really cool. She watched a Mike Rowe show on Facebook. He does a show, Returning The Favor, and he profiles different nonprofits and she saw one on this thing in Oregon called Fences for Fido that does exactly what she's now doing. And this goes back to what we talked earlier, if you have an idea, pursue it, take the first step. Her initial idea when she saw that is, "Man, we ought to do that here in Blue Ridge." We live in Blue Ridge, Georgia. "We ought to do this in Blue Ridge." And from that first initial thought, within a month she had bank accounts set up, she had a legal entity established, she had a Facebook, she had a post office box, she had a board of directors. A month after she had the initial thought, we were building our first fence. I mean, it was amazing.

Fritz:
And this community is a dog loving, a lot of retired people that are looking to get involved in charities, not only now has it obviously benefited her by creating this huge thing, talk about a sense of accomplishment, but it's created fulfillment for all the recipients of these fences and probably more importantly, all the people that participate in the builds, right? They're all retired folks, they're looking for stuff to do in their retirement that gives them fulfillment, and they love when we go. We had a fence built yesterday, first one after the coronavirus. Georgia opened up so we did our first build, social distancing and all that, but people were really excited to get back. It's become a really fulfilling part of all of our volunteers' lives. And we have fundraiser events and dinners and they're fun and we just do social outings to local wineries. So there's the social side of it. There's the charitable side of it. I mean it just goes on and on and on. But it all started with a simple idea and taking the first step.

Brad:
Yeah, that's amazing. And you had a quote in your book, you said, "Why passion and purpose are essential in creating a successful retirement." And you've touched on that so perfectly here. I'm curious to go, almost down to the micro now, I mean, do you have a daily routine? What does a day in the life look like for you and your wife?

Fritz:
Yeah. That's evolved, Brad, I think the first four months of my retirement, I was just so happy to not have an alarm clock that I was just mad, it was great. And I had one routine in that first four months, but then I found in time that you need a little bit of structure. That's the other thing that you'll find is, part of the reason people struggle when they leave the workplace is, we talked earlier, Jonathan, about all those things that the workplace provides. One of those things is structure, right? It provides structure to your day. If you suddenly go from a structured environment to an unstructured environment, that can cause a little bit of a challenge.

Fritz:
So what I found is the best fit for me is kind of have structure in my mornings. So what we do, five days a week, of course the gym's closed right now with the coronavirus. But when it opens back up, five days a week, I go to the gym. My wife and I both, she does some classes, I do others, we do some together. I do CrossFit, I do spin, there's a body pump thing I do. So, five days a week I'm in the gym, 07:00 to 09:00 o'clock-ish, maybe 08:00 to 10:00, depends on the class times. So I've got a structured morning to start my day. I get done, I'm home by 10 o'clock in the morning. I feel good, I've accomplished something.

Fritz:
We walk the dogs, we've got a mile and a half trail in the woods behind our house. So, I joke that's my morning commute now is walking the 30 minutes in the woods. It's a great way to start the day, but then the rest of the day is unstructured and we do whatever we want to do. And having that combination of some structure and some serendipity is a nice balance. It's working well for us.

Jonathan:
Speaking of these routines, one interesting thing is that you have a lot more time with your significant other, with your spouse. I mean, you're talking about this morning walk, this structure that you have, but you've gone from probably three hours of overlap on average per day, maybe even less, to now all day, every day of overlap with your significant other. And I'm just curious about the challenges that that presents and maybe others that are encompassed in that.

Fritz:
Yeah, great question. And that is a big challenge, I think. I can't tell you how many times, I've always talked to people at work before I retired that were getting ready to retire. And one of the things they almost always bring up is this question about all that together time and it is a big adjustment. I told the story in the book about a buddy of mine who was a pretty hard charge and corporate guy and he was maybe a month into retirement. He was kind of bored and shuffling around the house and his wife was unloading the dishwasher, or loading the dishwasher, and he kind of comes up behind her and starts telling her how to do it. And she's been doing it for 30 years, right? She blew up, and they worked it out, it's fine.

Fritz:
But it's a perfect example. If you've a stay at home spouse, in particular, they've got a daily routine already established. Suddenly you're helicoptering into this thing. I think a lot of people can relate to this with the coronavirus, right? Suddenly everybody's home all the time. The bottom line, I think what's important is that gets into this talk about it while you're still working and think about how you're going to make that adjustment. That's a huge element of retirement. And I think what's worked well for us is we recognized and we talk about it, the fact that there needs to be an agreement, preferably in advance kind of, "Hey, I'm going to need my space. You're going to need your space, but we're also going to have a lot more time together. So what's the right balance of we time, he time, and she time?"

Fritz:
And how do you mix that up so that you don't get upset with each other if you're spending too much time together or too much time apart? And you've got to work through that. I think that's one of the challenges that a lot of people face. You see the numbers on gray divorce, it's a real thing. And I think it goes to the whole point of all of these areas in retirement have to be thought about and you have to communicate, obviously with your partner as you're preparing for it. And I think if you talk about the broader challenges, the depression that we talked about, the loss of self identity, a lot of people struggle whether it's on the relationship side or all these other factors that we've talked about. And I don't think you can have a topic about successful retirement without acknowledging there's a lot of people that don't. The chance of depression goes up 40% in retirement based on research.

Fritz:
So if you're struggling and you're just getting into retirement, it's not going well, man, you are not alone. It's a huge change and don't freak out about it. Recognize that's normal. That's part of the process. And read the book, look up stuff. There's a lot of stuff online about it, it's a growing field, I think. People are recognizing with all the baby boomers retiring that it doesn't always go well for people. And there are more and more resources out there. I put a whole resource section in the back of the book specifically aimed on this topic because my heart goes out. I've had a great retirement, great transition, but I'm sympathetic for those that haven't. So I did write the book with a focus on people that are struggling to try to figure this out and I've provided a lot of resources to try to help them. I think it's really an important element to this thing.

Jonathan:
Yeah. What came through, as I was reading the book was one is, retirement is awesome, you can plan for it, it's going to be fantastic. This is awesome. But that doesn't mean it doesn't come without challenges and it's going to be so much smoother if you take some time to think through those challenges before you are actually facing them. So Fritz, if someone's listening to this, they want to get a copy of your book or they just want to know where to find it, what's the best way for someone to do that?

Fritz:
I would just go on Amazon, Keys to a Successful Retirement. It's going to be available nationwide in booksellers if there's too many of those left, I don't know, but Barnes and Nobles, we're trying to get it into Target even. So it will be available retail, brick and mortar, but I would just say go to Amazon, Keys to a Successful Retirement. Look on my website, theretirementmanifesto. I've got a page on there, My Book. You can just order it through that page if you'd like. You can get it anywhere books are sold.

Jonathan:
Awesome. And to everyone listening to this, we're doing this as a two part series on having a successful retirement. This was really the mindset, critical, critical stuff here. Part two though, I think will really appeal to you numbers geeks in the audience. We're going to break down the technicals. We're going to take a look at how Fritz mapped out creating a paycheck for himself, how he mapped out his bucket strategy, how he mapped out his asset allocation, and just all these really cool and critical things to know about. So stay tuned for that. We'll see you next time as we continue to go down the road less traveled.

Speaker 1:
You've been listening to Choose FI Radio Podcast where we help middle class America build wealth one life hack at a time.

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